Webinar: Moving Abroad: Visa, Reality and Networking Secrets

Welcome back to another episode of the Open Source Cafe. This is a very special one because I have gotten a lot of requests around this and because I'm an expat as well. So we're going to talk about immigration, moving abroad, or your work, especially in tech.Share some nice resources for you that you can check out in the description and answer some nice questions that we have gotten from the community. And we have one of the experts, Mikhail, joining us, who has helped so many people. And Mikhail, how's it going? And maybe you can tell us a little bit more about yourself to the audience and where you're joining from.

So I'm Mike, co-founder of Immigrants. I'm an immigrant myself. I immigrated first from my home country in 2016 to a uni first and then for work.

I lived in London for like four and a half. I lived in Georgia, I lived in Armenia, I lived in Buenos Aires recently for like seven or eight months. So, yeah, I kind of travel around.

And where I'm joining from, I'm currently in Tbilisi, Georgia, because I just love the city and the country. Amazing. Well, we're looking forward to having this chat.

And, you know, we both would travel so much and lived in so many other countries. And I get this question quite a lot. How do you get jobs in other parts of the world? My main motivation was that even though I work remotely, I really love working with the team in person.

And just the work culture here is super amazing as compared to back home. But yeah, I love meeting people in person, even though I work remotely. It's just something about it, you know, talking to people in real life.

But in your experience, what are some of the benefits and advantages for people who, let's say, are looking to move abroad? And what are some of the things they can expect as a career advancement? Or maybe you can share your own experience. How has living around the world helped your professional journey? Okay, I can answer in two ways. I can answer in a prosaic way and in a poetic way.

So let's start with prosaic one. People move abroad for work, for money, simply. Just because if you live in... I recently moved to... Like, I lived in Buenos Aires.

And for instance, normal salary in Argentina for a junior developer is X if you work for an Argentinian company inside Buenos Aires. If you still live in Buenos Aires and work remotely for an American company or a Madridista company or just a European company, you will earn like 2X slash 3X. But only if you move to either London or San Francisco or New York or wherever, or any other European city, like Berlin or Madrid, you will earn 5X to 6X, just because people... This is the minimum kind of wages that people are at the same level of technological expertise earning in different countries.

It is that simple, unfortunately. You are only on senior level in Buenos Aires. You will earn like 4X to 5X to 7X.

It is impossible for a middle. And it is quite possible in other countries. Life is more expensive as well, but comparatively, like one big mac in this.

In general, like the purchase power parity as well, because they're like, it's more expensive. But in general, I have seen that even though the prices are a bit expensive, like, for example, I talk about London because I live in London, like in the city of London in central. So it's super expensive to live and rent and everything.

But I still find it when that balances out with the pay and stuff that sort of like people make here, it's still more than my home country. So even though that if you go to the US or whatever, you're going to earn more, you're going to spend a lot more. But the amount you get saved, I have found that to be quite a lot as compared to, you know, back home.

So it's not like an argument that, OK, if you're making a lot of money, you're also spending a lot of money. I don't find that to be really relevant because you're still saving a lot more compared to when you were at back home. So for your future needs, for your retirement and other things.

And I also realize that many of these other countries, like, for example, India, the import tax and stuff is quite a lot. So if you're looking to buy a car or whatever, iPhone or something, it's like 40 to 50 percent more expensive. Such things are like really cheap in the United States.

Yeah, the same in the US. You can in London, I heard about it and haven't tried it. But you can just like subscribe for Tesla for like 200 bucks a month and you will never do it anyplace else.

So, yeah. I can't drive, but I'm sure, you know, people make the most out of the opportunities. Cool.

Let's talk a little bit more about that. Let's dive straight into it. Various ways to move abroad.

So, you know, I'd like to share more around this, but in my experience, mainly two that apply to the gendered population. First one being the, OK, a company sponsors a visa. That's how I came to London, as he was sponsoring my work visa, pretty straightforward process.

And I can only work in London while I have a company to sponsor me on this visa, like skilled worker one. That's fine. Second one is a global talent visa that many countries offer.

It's like UK offers the global talent, USA offers the O visa. So my question to you is, why are countries doing this? What is the benefit to the countries to offer these types of visa? And a lot of individuals should look for these types of visas if they do not get a company to sponsor their, you know, move. OK, let's like for 30 seconds, let's dive a little bit deeper in what is, what's a visa.

The distinction here is not really about it's either a work visa or a global talent visa. The distinction here, division here, it's either a sponsored visa or a self-sponsored visa. Meaning, is there anyone who can, who is vouching kind of for you, who is either, it's either your employer or some sort of organization.

Normally, it is an employer or a business accelerator or whatever. Or is it a visa that you just get yourself as a person and you just allowed to be anything in the country, leave there, apply for citizenship and whatsoever. And if you check, for instance, we can say there are a lot of global talent visas in the world, but none of them are really self-sponsored.

There are only two self-sponsored visas like permanent residence visas in the world, which is global talent in the UK and EB1A, EB1, EB2 in the US. Even the old visa, which is super popular, it is not self-sponsored because you still need an employer, you still need some sponsor that will apply and sign the petition and whatever. You cannot change jobs.

You will just get a free, like, I can talk about it like for now at least. But yeah, so summing it up, there are self-sponsored visas and not self-sponsored visas. And that's the distinction here.

And why are the countries doing that? Why are the countries kind of easing the influx, input, incoming amount of income and talent into the country? Just because if we just check the stats, almost a half of Fortune 500 companies are founded by either immigrants or children of immigrants. It is that simple. So if you make a country kind of attractive to international talent, you will fix your talent shortage.

You will find yourself in a position when you have lots and lots of amazing companies being started by those people, lots and lots of amazing ideas being created by those people, lots of industries, lots of whatever. It's just that simple. So the countries who are doing it, they finally understood that, you know, tech is the new gold and you can either mine it or you can just sit and watch.

So a lot of countries, like my home country, is currently doing the opposite. So yeah, they are getting rid of their talent. But those countries who understand it, that's Australia, UK, United States, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, and so on.

Singapore, for instance, has an amazing employment task force, so they attract those who will be building the next Apple, the next Google, the next Facebook, the next Badoo, the next whatever. So yeah, in short, countries that understand that tech is the new gold are actively mining it and easing immigration. Yeah, couldn't agree more.

And personally, what I've seen is that, like, OK, the tax in the UK, for example, is quite a lot. But what I have realized is that the government has a lot of initiatives in place for you to save a lot of tax if you put the money back in the community and the tech ecosystem, for example. So that's something I didn't really see in mind, like in India, for example, and I think something that the country should also, you know, focus on.

But that's one thing, like some really good initiatives by the government. Like if you are earning a lot of money, but you put some of it back in the community, you get a lot of tax savings. Cool.

Other thing I want to talk about is, like, you know, obviously living and working abroad can be a transformative experience. So how do you think that moving to a new country for work can influence one's personal and professional life? And the question why I'm asking you this is, how does a person know that, you know, it is for them? Because I also meet a lot of people who move abroad and they're just like, OK, not working for me. I'm going to go back.

And that's completely fine. You know, that's what I tell my viewers as well. Like in the end, the most important thing is your happiness, mental health and work life balance and stuff.

So how do you know it's the right choice for you? And what are some of the things you can expect when moving abroad? OK, there is a long answer. Let's try and do the long answer. So I completely understand those who have moved abroad, moved to a country and didn't like it.

And that is OK, because it is the same as like you can not like a country. That is fine. You just need to try something different.

And it is the same, unfortunately, with all the videos and vlogs and blog posts and travel experiences in the world. You will never experience the country until you experience the country. And it is the same.

You can watch thousands of videos on Mexican cuisine, on tacos and burritos. But until you've tried and until you've tried a different version of it in different places in Mexico City, you will never really understand what it is. You will just have like some sort of an idea.

But that is it. And yeah, sorry, I was learning. I was speaking mainly Spanish for the last seven months.

So, yeah, it is the problem here, like an additional problem here, which is super common is people are moving to a country not because they want to, but because there is some visa scheme that is available to them. And people are first kind of looking for a best visa to go to obtain and then think, OK, is it really? And they either think a little about is it really the country I want to go or they think like, OK, I will get the visa and find out. And people are spending years in the country not liking it, not being happy.

And it's not whatever adjective of happiness. Yeah, so it can be transformative. And it is super interesting.

And I would I would advise everyone to try to leave abroad and to leave, not to travel, because there is a huge difference between spending a week in Paris and five months in Paris and five years in Paris. It's three completely different cities. One can experience because it is it does, you know, it does remove some sort of like horse blinders from your eyes.

You see the world difference after you've lived for at least like a few months in some countries. You just understand that, OK, I am in my home country in Yemen. I never I never left it.

But I have people there. I have business contacts. I have networking.

I have places to work where people to work with. I have people to talk to. I have people wherever.

And after some months, months, not days, not weeks, but months in a different city, you understand that it is the same. The world is full of people to talk to, to work with, to make you get along with, to make friends with, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And the kind of the perspective with what I'm trying to English is my second language.

The perspective with what they look at the world is sometimes completely different. And it's at least it is fascinating and super interesting. But at best, it is it does change you a little bit.

So if you spend if you spend a few years in London, you will become a bit of a Londoner. If you spend a year in Argentina, you will you will be late to every meeting. No, I mean, you will you will you will be you will get these like small things that will change you as a person and that will make you richer as a person.

So you have to realize you're a moving country. It's obviously a lot of a lot of work, you know, getting settled in and everything. So one thing that I would say is it's OK to feel overwhelmed at first and you feel like, OK, maybe this is not for me.

Give it some time is what I would say. Give it a little time and try to adjust. And then, you know, if it doesn't work after a few months or a year, then you're free to explore other paths.

But one other thing I want to mention is like when we talk about moving to a new country in the let's say we're talking about career development. So networking is pretty crucial. What what sort of like steps did you take to network when you were living in a in a different country and maybe also around some cultural adjustments, for example, that some people might make by moving abroad? So how do you navigate these sort of changes and what are your top tips to network and settle in? Mm hmm.

I yeah, I can talk a lot about networking because I build my company. The first two years of the company were like it's 90 percent networking and 10 percent everything else. So, yeah, I would say like if we make it sharp and in a nutshell, I would say first is to network in a moderated community.

So don't network on the streets and don't network on the like, you know, student conventions and whatever. The best place to network is a place where you pay at least a little bit for your admission to it, because the like kind of level of attentiveness and the eagerness to kind of to kind of get at least something within the community is much higher than just non-moderated, with no payment, just like a meetup. But meetups are also great.

So it's the same as in order to learn language, what should I do? Read, write or speak. You should do everything. That's the only way of like you should the unmoderated communities are fine as well.

But the best are moderated communities. And the second tip is, this is the mistake people usually make when they network, is they have expectations of I'm going to a conference. I must have at least 10 business cards.

I need to give 100 business cards. I have blah, blah, blah. They have, they create this kind of image of an event, an image of a person they will meet and they will whatever.

So I usually go to a networking event without any expectations at all. And that's, I think like there is a phrase, the one who seeks finds. But I guess with networking, it's vice versa.

The one who doesn't seek finds. Because it is the only way where you can be relaxed, you can be sincere, you can be easy going and people will see that. Nobody wants to talk just with a gold digger with business cards, but everyone wants a sincere and like a natural connection with the person.

And that is the one, the thing you should pursue. Because like for my personal understanding, for my theory, networking is not about exchanging business cards. Networking is not about how can I supply the request of a person.

I need to know requests of persons around me. I need to communicate my request, blah, blah, blah. I believe networking is about building, creating, building and maintaining personal strong connections with people.

And yeah, so like the final part here is the final kind of idea here is that there are three levels. That's my favorite theory. There are three levels of networking, really, in any moderate community and moderate community ever.

The first is when you just start communicating with people. The first is a de-measuring contest. When you kind of, all people talk about is I have this startup.

I work at this company. I do this. I do that.

And that is it, really. And that's not a conversation. And that's usually why the like gold digging with business cards doesn't work.

It's just because that's the very first level. I work at this company. I work at that company.

I have this company. I invest. I blah, blah, blah.

It doesn't lead anywhere. The conversion is just 1%. The second level is a fake sincerity.

When people start, oh, it is so interesting with you guys. We should definitely hang out. We should definitely whatever.

And I'm feeling so content being here. I am feeling, I am feeling, I am feeling. And that's probably true as well.

Just because people are not feeling that. People are telling this because this is the thing they think. This is the thing the others want to hear.

But the third level is the level I kind of aimed to achieve. And I would suggest the ones who want to win networking would like to achieve. It's just a simple conversation.

Just going out for a smoke in a tech conference and just asking, oh, the weather is nice. Or like this super sincere, super basic, super, you know, conversation with someone. That is the one.

Like networking is about friendships. It's not about business cards. So yeah, creating friendships.

And the final third here, I'm sorry for this taking so long. Just because like I build my business for this. I like I have seven years of networking experience.

So yeah, the final third here is the only way, like why do people network? Because they want to approach people who are higher than them in the food chain, right? So the way a founder wants to meet a bigger founder, a junior developer wants to meet a senior developer, et cetera, et cetera. So the only way to approach such a whale is to not ask anything from them. So imagine yourself super experienced, big time founder, big time CPO, big time CTO.

However, people around you every day come to you with requests, with suggestions, with something to ask for something to give or something, something, something, the business cards, this rubbish. And you are tired after a few years. You are just tired of that.

And it is so for those guys, it is extremely refreshing to just have a conversation, a simple, basic, sincere conversation with someone who is just interested in them as a person. And of course, hiding their true intentions of getting a mentor, getting an investor, getting a co-founder, getting a partner, getting a client, getting whatever. So yeah, approach with sincerity, be just simply genuinely interested in the person and limit yourself to one or two or three conversations in the whole tech event.

Because if you will have 100, you will do nothing. You will not meet 100 people. So something like that.

I love your point around, you know, not having those expectations because most people I know, they just network for the sake of like, okay, this person will help me get a job in the future or whatever. That sort of thing is like fine. I mean, obviously your network is really important when you're looking for like roles and stuff and all the opportunities I have gotten have been via my network.

But that has never been the main outline for me to network with someone like, okay, this person will help me in the future. For me, it's always been about curiosity and just education, just learning more from the person and for them to feel like, you know, they're learning something as well. So just be engaged in the conversation rather than like you mentioned, like, okay, this person will help me get a job in the future or whatever.

It's been generally interested in what people do. All right. Well, thanks for sharing, Mikel.

We're almost closing in on time. So for folks who are watching, a lot of, you know, resources for you in the description below and action items to help you in your immigration journey. So make sure you check that out.

And lastly, Mikel, maybe we can share a bit more about, let's say, if we take UK for an example. So folks who, let's say, are not looking for a company to sponsor them, how can they move abroad in terms of, let's say, the Global Talent Visa? What are some of the key things in mind and tips and just, you know, something you would, any words of encouragement for people? Ah, pow, pow, pow. I can read you a lecture about Global Talent, of course, but let's, if we keep it short, and if we look at software engineers do and product managers for the low-hanging fruit with the most impact, I would say a key to a Global Talent or O1 or EB1 or like any content and journey and experience-based visa, a key to look at it is to not look at it, but look at your life backwards, you know? So in order to do any kind of such a visa, you need to look back on your life and find everything career-related, of course, which you can say, I did this, did, with the word without the word, was doing, was working on, was managing, was researching, was whatever I did and finished.

And that is a brick, any project, any conference, I spoke, I did, I created, I led, I whatever with the ED at the end. And you look at it as bricks in your home that you're building, being the visa. And you structure your own memoirs, structure your own, you know, lifetime, career life, career time.

Not sure. See, in a way that, okay, these are the bricks that kind of, that these are the bricks that are the life I kind of, I lived the career life. And after you did that, and you have all of the like mind map or like the bricks or the list of the bricks that you did, you just pick a visa.

You look at the criteria, which are usually quite concise and clear, and you just, okay, there is a criteria in global talent with a significant contribution to a product that isn't for the company. Aha, what is the contribution? It is, I did a project and it was significant. Significance here means that it started something.

There was an outcome. So you just pick the brick and place it to the contribution thing. There is a criteria in O1, there is a criteria being in a critical capacity for an organization with distinguished reputation.

Critical capacity, what does it mean? I led something, I managed some projects, et cetera. So big bricks go there. I, the conference thing, and so on.

So the best kind of approach, this is what I want to leave at really. So the best approach is in the only way of not being overwhelmed by all these visas and criteria and requirements and so on, is just to feel like structure your life and structure your career in a way that it's easy to just, okay, this brick goes there, this brick goes there. And if you do that, the whole visa thing, it's just a Lego house.

And yeah, you can build a Lego house. That's it. Yeah, and I couldn't agree more.

So these are some of the nice tips for like your resumes and stuff as well, because we see people, I see people all the time in resumes, they're like, I completed this, I worked with this company or whatever, and I worked on this technology. But what does that mean? Add some metrics, if you can, that would be really helpful for the ATS. But yeah, I think in the end, it's more about just giving proof.

And these metrics are a good enough way to give proof that you actually did the work. But I hate doing these paperwork and compiling stuff. So I always take professional help.

There are many services you can use. Leave some in the description below that you can check out. But this was really fun.

Thanks a lot for joining and sharing, Mikhail, and answering all my questions. And yeah, that's really good. And see you in the next one.

Have a good day. Pleasure. Thank you for asking.